Thomas A. Edison (and others) ** 78 rpm ** 12" ** VERY RARE ** ACETATE

Items in this lot are:

• Christmas Greetings from Sumner Williams, Charlie Luhr, Gene Philips, John Shearman, Walter Huebner, Charles Viley, Charles Edison, Thomas A. Edison / A story about cowboys, Indians and Spanish landowners" -- Label: Not shown -- Record#: not shown, trailing wax on "B" side shows "TA 516 M"

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Description: Up for your consideration is the next in a series of unique discs, this one featuring most prominently Thomas A. Edison in what is, apparently, a Christmas sales promotion record.

Frankly, this is a highly unusual item. I've not seen anything like it. I'm not sure exactly what I've got. A fellow e-bayer indicated this is an ACETATE recording, made after 1940. The disc has the normal center hole, but it also has three other holes in a triangle shape with the regular center hole in the middle. This same fellow ebayer tells me that the extra holes are to hold the record on the cutting lathe.

Additionally, on the "A" side there is some silver material (looks somewhat like tin foil?) around the edges. The material is very thin and, on side A, does NOT encroach into the grooves as it barely comes into the beginning dead wax. However, on the "B" side it DOES encroach into the grooves for about 1/6 of the playing circumference (please see scan of the "B" side to better understand what I'm trying to tell you. When I played that "B" side, I had to set the needle in a short ways from the record edge past where the grooves start to avoid this silver material. This silver material could probably be removed, but I'm not going to attempt that for fear of damaging the item.

Also, Internet research indicates there appears to have been made an Edison diamond disc version of the Christmas greetings side. This auction is NOT that version. This is a 12"+ disc that is black on both sides. THIS IS NOT THICK LIKE AN EDISON DIAMOND DISK.

I'm told this is MOST LIKELY a dub from an Edison Diamond Disc ... BUT... read on as I did find an audio copy of the original Edison Diamond Disc out on YouTube (see below) to compare mine to and they did not match exactly! When I played this on my back-up 78 rpm player (a Magnavox console), I did not hear a hiss at the beginning of the side A track. As stated previously, the silver material prevents me from starting at the beginning of the side B track. The value of this item MAY result on whether the item is a published recording (minimal value) or an unpublished record (considerable value). I'm still doing research and am trying to determine whether it is published or unpublished. If any of you 78 rpm experts have additional input, please let me know!!

11:18:2013: I found an audio copy out on YouTube for the Christmas Greetings record, parts 1 and 2 on an Edison diamond disc. It shows the actual disc being placed on an Edison player and plays in full both sides. In listening to that copy, I find that what I have is part 2. Given the several speakers in part 2, I took the time to listen to that YouTube copy nearly 10 times, copying down word for word what both Charles and Thomas Edison said. I then compared it to my copy. I focused on Thomas A. Edison's part and noted two slight differences in Thomas A. Edison's portion. Even though Thomas Edison only speaks four sentences, the two differences are: 1) On my copy he repeats the word "I'll" at the beginning of the second sentence. 2) On the YouTube copy, he repeats the word "what" towards the end of the second sentence. What these differences mean, I'm going to leave that up to you to decide, ie. does that mean this is unpublished?

Mine has far less hiss than the YouTube copy. As mentioned previously, the disc I am offering contains the voice of Thomas A. Edison and the other personnel as shown above.

There is no print on the labels except for a mid-sized rectangular piece of paper on one side that says: "CHRISTMAS GREETINGS FROM Sumner Williams, Charlie Luhr, Gene Philips, John Shearman, Walter Huebner, Charles Viley, Charles Edison, Thomas A. Edison." It almost looks like that piece of paper is glued onto the label as I don't see any tape.

Also, when I played this, the speaking sounded okay on both sides. On the "B" side during the cowboy/Indian story, there is a brief musical part and that sounds a bit slow. So, I'm thinking this may be somewhat greater than 78 RPM, perhaps 80 RPM? My player can only play 78 rpm.

. Several other unique things about this item: Firstly, this record retains the original shine with some very light marks and small scuffs grading by sight in normal room light. The few spots you see in the scans are on my scanner, not on the record (note they are consistent for other scans). I'm sure if you took this and put it under a 1000 watt bulb, you'd probably find something that makes it less than mint. If you're that kind of collector, and after a recent unpleasant experience with a buyer from Malaysia, let me suggest this auction is not for you. I don't claim this record is mint.

I did take the time to play this disc and found the "A" side with Edison to play around VG+(excellent). The unlabeled "B" side did not play as well as the "A" side. It played a bit better than half way between VG and VG+(excellent), so not as good as the Edison "A" side. You can read my comments and the grading scale below to assign your own grade.

Secondly, at the time of this listing, no past/present copies found for sale on e-bay and NO COPIES FOUND FOR SALE OUT ON THE INTERNET!

Internet research showed:
There exists a diamond disc recording called: "Holiday Greetings From The Bunch At Orange". Personnel on that disc giving short speeches regarding the Edison Phonograph company:

1. Sumner Williams Purchasing Agent
2. Charlie Luhr Mgr, Phono. Mfg Div.
3. Gene Philips Credit Manager
4. John Shearman Mgr., Order/Serv. Dept.
5. Walter Huebner Mgr, Accounting Dept.
6. Charles Viley Mgr., Commission Plan
7. Charles Edison Chairman of the Board
8. Thomas A. Edison The "Old Man" Himself

So the personnel on that disc matches what I've got on the disc I'm offering for sale.

"Manufactured and issued only once, in the Fall of 1924, this Diamond Disc was sent only to Edison dealers and jobbers, as an audio Christmas Card of sorts, and was never made available to the public.

Phonograph sales at Thomas A. Edison, Inc. were on the decline, largely due to the latest entertainment marvel, the radio. Cylinders had lost the media war, and although arguably superior to acoustic lateral records, the Diamond Disc could not take enough of the disc business away from the more publicly accepted records from companies like Victor, Columbia, Brunswick, etc. In order to help bolster the spirits of their loyal dealers, the various managers of the Phonograph Division each recorded a brief message of Holiday wishes, and other messages of surprising candor and optimistic good cheer. By this time, however, Thomas Edison was 77 years old, his son Charles now ran the company, and the phonograph division would come to a halt less than 5 years later. This was only the second production record containing the voice of Thomas A. Edison himself."

So this is your chance to own a unique item at a reasonable price.

Bid early and often so you don't miss out on this item!

My main system for playing 78s is an old Zenith system that plays three speeds and allows me to turn a knob which flips a needle to allow for playing 78 RPMs. If you have a player specifically designed for playing 78 RPMs, or can clean them, it (they) may sound even better. My back-up system is a Magnavox console and I tested the record on that system as well.

This item is further described below, please take the time to read before bidding.

Please e-mail if questions.

Be sure to check my other listings to save postage on multiple winning bids. Please explore the "Me" link above(next to feedback rating) to check out my store and some of the 15,000+ records / books / CD's / cassettes I have for sale as well as the LP to CD transfer service I offer.

I am using the Goldmine scale of G=Good(1), VG = Very Good(2), VG+ = Very Good Plus(excellent)(3), NM = Near Mint(4) when grading the disc(s).

Here is a summary of the record(s):

Artist: Thomas A. Edison and others Title: Christmas Greetings from Sumner Williams, Charlie Luhr, Gene Philips, John Shearman, Walter Huebner, Charles Viley, Charles Edison, Thomas A. Edison / A story about cowboys, Indians and Spanish landowners" Record: Black vinyl which retains the original shine with some very light marks and small scuffs grading by sight in normal room light. There is some flaking around the beginning dead wax, both black and silver color. Labels: Black with no print. There is a piece of paper on one side which appears to have been glued that indicates the side A track contents. The "b" side is blank. No pen/pencil marks, some spindle marks, some center hole wear. Trailing wax: Side 1: nothing shown. Side 2: "TA 516 M" Comments: I found the two sides to audibly average a bit better than 3/4 of the way between VG and VG+ (excellent). An unusual and rare addition to your 78 RPM collection. This may be a one-of-a-kind item. Side 1: Comments: Christmas Greetings from Sumner Williams, Charlie Luhr, Gene Philips, John Shearman, Walter Huebner, Charles Viley, Charles Edison, Thomas A. Edison Up to a constant very light to light surface noise with some scattered very light to light pops (2.9). Side 2: Comments: A story about cowboys, Indians and Spanish landowners Up to a constant very light to light, somtimes almost moderate surface noise with some scattered very light to light pops (2.6).

Additional criteria I use when audibly grading records for people:

• NM(4) = absolutely nothing wrong at all (very rarely happens--I've even opened sealed records and they don't play Near Mint)
• 3.5-3.9 = very, very light surface noise
• 3.1-3.4 = very light surface noise, very light pops
• VG+(3) = up to light pops and light surface noise (below this, one's enjoyment is affected, very subjective)
• VG(2) = up to medium pops and moderate surface noise
• G(1) = up to heavy pops and heavy surface noise

I normally ship 78 RPM discs in 14"x14"x6" boxes padded in styrofoam and sandwiched between cardboard. Weight with box is about 2 pounds 5 ounces. Shipping is: $3.43 Media Rate (2-3 pounds) + $2.10 box/tape + $.90 delivery confirmation = $6.43.

Buyer pays shipping/handling. Standard method within U.S. is Media Rate, $4.00. This includes delivery confirmation which enables you to track shipping of your package online. Outside U.S., e-mail location to determine S/H costs prior to auction end. Insurance / other methods of shipping cost extra. Payment received within ten days of auction ending. Payment via Paypal preferred.

Thanks for stopping by and good luck with the bidding!

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1. Let me know why it is not as described.
2. If approved, then return the item in the original box within 7 days of receipt by you.
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On Dec-22-13 at 15:34:57 PST, seller added the following information:

12:22:13 This from another e-bayer who is much more an expert than I on this type of item: The"Silver" material on this record cannot be removed as it the actual Aluminum that the record is printed on. Acetate records are a Aluminum disc to begin with and then covered with a shellac type of coating to make a blank. They are then lathed while recording to make a master that they then use as template to mass produce Vinyls or the like. Hopefully I have been able to give you some good info :) great item as well.

On Jan-06-14 at 16:39:02 PST, seller added the following information:

01:06:2014: more info from another e-bayer more expert than I am on this type of item: Just to give you a bit more information on the Edison record, what you have is an acetate, a metal record coated with a thin layer of lacquer that is made for evaluating the disc before the record is pressed. The silver that you see is the actual disc where the lacquer has chipped away with age. Acetates are delicate and can only be played a few times before the lacquer is worn from the grooves.